Why share exchanges with her? Because she never allowed for us to live in peace. I’m not excusing his behavior because looking back he was definitely created triangulation by telling me one thing, saying something else to her and her family and bad mouthing her and then saying something different to her. That said, my experience with her is that she is a nasty, unstable and vindictive human being and these emails show it. Every year for his birthday she created drama. For example, in 2013 she wouldn’t let his kids stay with him and was on him for celebrating with me and the kids together. I can’t remember what happened in 2014 but in 2016 she created drama and without asking, but knowing we had plans, made plans for one of the boys. Anything she could do to stop us from creating a unit or try to bond, she did. Hope it worked out well for her…
Date: Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM
Subject: Random thoughts about Christine and predictions on
To: email@example.com, >Random thoughts about Christine and predictions on what she may do.
1. Start complaining about what we are doing and whether it’s appropriate.
2. Will be nice to Vince with increased emails re how kids are doing.
3. May exaggerate parts of conversation to get in between us.
4. May point out her loyalty vs lack of mine for listening to her/meeting her/. I shared my telling you that life keeps throwing you shit comment unless you look at what you’re suppose to change. I believe I said I told you you’ll keep getting into accidents as a way to slow your mind and make you sit with shit.
6. Was crying then stopped wanting to make sure I wasn’t going to tell you fearing you would ‘punish’ her by stopping giving extra support when you don’t have to.
7. Said she was the glue that held you together and didn’t understand why you had to get involved with scheduling. She had done it for 17 years. My impression is she was trying to play me. Hoping I would offer information. There was a coldness to her. She flip flopped every time I offered a solution that was focused on her changing her behavior. Said she was happiest when you were gone and she had the kids 6,7,8 days in a row. Said she loved summer when you were gone 8 weeks vacationing and biking.
My concerns are Vince won’t do anything to curb her or set boundaries and what that means to us. I told her I wanted a friendship where I can call her to set up play date for kids. Felt okay about her when I left with some concerns but after more thought clarified what was bothering me.
Said she should not allow for him to dictate her happiness and why should he considering he wasn’t able to do it while married. She kept asking me if Vince had mentioned her having shingles, and spine issues causing her great pain. Said you didn’t visit her dad after he had a heart attack and child counselor said go visit. Said her dad was an awesome guy. Said you didn’t socialize with others for kids sake. And you were at fault for marriage falling apart.
If any of what I said comes true and you haven’t yet taken necessary steps then I will have no choice but implement time line and and consider walking away considering she isn’t right in the head. I’ve had my share of that so can’t place myself in same place. It’s dangerous. Will investigate more to be more specific for my sake.
She tried to say I was projecting and telling her what to do and I corrected her saying that was not true. Feeling scared. She’s very manipulative.
Below are the few exchanges before she decided I was a problem. I understand now why Vince wasn’t too fond of my having contacted her in the first place. As screwed up as he was he knew exactly what she was like.
Sep 26, 2013, at 11:13 PM
Thanks for your message. I appreciate you reaching out and really want you to know that I have no ill feelings toward you at all. I am sure you are a great person and mom – no reason to think otherwise.
While I have no romantic feelings for Vince, this divorce has been extremely difficult for me because of the break up of my family. I have been very hurt by Vince’s behavior both before and after our separation. It is obviously not appropriate to discuss those things with you, nor would I imagine you are interested, but it has shaped the kind of relationship that I am willing and able to have with him right now.
I would actually be happy to meet with you for coffee, and I appreciate the offer. As I said, I am sure you are a very nice person and will be great with my kids.
I have been trying to rebuild my life and how I think about life as a single mom and part of that has been to get the kids and I settled into a neighborhood and into the ordinary things in life with the kids that bring me joy. In order for me to have this space to feel good in, I really need some separation from Vince and this new life that he is building with you and your children (and mine). I have had to accept that my kids are now part of your relationship, and I am doing my best to adjust to that. They know their Dad has done nothing wrong and I have of course said nothing negative about your relationship. I have simply asked Vince that I be allowed the space to recover and part of that is not seeing Vince with the new family he is creating – at least not where I am trying to rebuild (e.g., *****’s baseball games, kids’ schools). I don’t understand why this accommodation cannot be made – for now anyway. I have pretty much begged for this, so I am out of options. Please know that I am not trying to be difficult or mean, I just can’t do it and I would hope you guys would have some empathy regarding this. Vince talks about moving into a better relationship between he and I and these things are always a two-way street, with compromises to support each others’ needs. I am probably not expressing myself very well, apologies for that. I would appreciate you considering this.
Sep 27, 2013 at 9:19 AM
I’m so happy you responded and want to meet – when do you want to do that? I also appreciate your sincerity and openness in where you are. What you said about family resonates more than you can imagine and while my circumstances differ in a much different and chaotic way I feel your pain. I will share just a bit… I grew up in Iran until I was 9. We came to the US because my mother was invited to be a guest professor at UC Davis. 6 weeks after we arrived the revolution happened and we spent the rest of my childhood well into adulthood waiting for the two months to be over. After all there was no way the mullahs were going to last more than 2 months. My life was far from perfect in Iran – my mother’s work always came first which has left me with some issues 🙂 but there was a lot of wonderful memories too. To this day I cry when I think about the summers I spent at the Caspian Sea with my family. But that will never happen largely due to family members scattered all around the world and some who died. I still long for that togetherness I once knew and had always imagined creating those happy memories on my own. I relate more than you know to your wanting that family. I want to share more with you but don’t want to step over boundaries and upset you. So maybe when we meet you can get a better feel as to who I am. The one thing I want to reassure you of is that I respect you and know where my place is in respect to your boys. You are their mom. Period. I am just one more person in their life that cares for them. And because of my own experience I want all of us, including you, to co exist and create a kind of a new unit. And soon you will meet someone and the unit will grow. I hope I’m coming across and making sense. I think I can explain better when we talk. Another thing I will share with you is, like ****, I have ADHD and given my struggles I think you and Vince are doing a great job with addressing it now. I was just diagnosed 2 years ago…anyway…I have lots to share with you if you are open. It’s part of who I am and I guess a little bit part of my culture.
Re Saturday…I don’t need to be there but I have a couple of ideas I want to run by you to see what you think about this weekend only. Can we do that though over the phone? My main concern are the kids. Yours and mine so it’s with them in mind but I’m in a hurry now so I can’t write any more and rather talk over the phone a little later if you are open to it. I also think this stuff is really between you and Vince and the two of you need to find a way to figure it out. I’ve even given him a number of a therapist to help… I gotta get going but lets talk today!
10/2/13 – This is where I caught him lying about when they decided to divorce. He lied to me and reading this makes me feel like an idiot because I assumed she had it mixed up, but she didn’t. He lied to me and he lied to her. He’s a liar. Just like his friend and work colleague said. Vincent Beggs lies.
I sent this because I never ever want there to be any doubt where I stand and where my loyalty is. You and her were you and her. We are different. Plus what she shared with me was not just to share it was out of anger. I remain concerned about what her impression is as to when the two of you decided to divorce. If you can please figure that out it would be helpful. She doesn’t even believe you moved out in January so that’s her point of reference. A year after you separated which she believes is in the spring as do your parents. So we need to talk about what to do in case you hadn’t decided on the divorce in early January because to a woman it matters. And believe me it will matter to her and will be a new reason for her to be mad. And she will be angry with me and I will be the reason as to why you didn’t work out. She’ll then tell the kids that, and we can kiss easy goodbye. And she wants to know…believe me…I’m a girl…I know. Can you think back to when you went for Elizabeth’s party. Have you had the divorce talk? All she said was she had to call you and tell you she wanted a divorce. So it was done by phone but she claims it was march or april. She’s already having a hard time believing you started dating so shortly after….Anyway, that’s an important date for the agreement as well. If you can dig up your receipt to prove you moved out January it will help make the argument you decided the divorce the next year since she believes that to be true to. Okay. I’m done. None of this is urgent. It’s on that damn list. You’re under a lot of pressure. I don’t know what or if I can do anything to help you. I just want a plan and some sort of structure and know there will be an end to this crazy back and forth. I don’t want to be afraid that the date we began dating can become an issue in your divorce if she makes it out to be…maybe it won’t…I’m rambling….and i am going to remain positive and hope meeting calmed her down a little. On the other hand who knows…I have my prediction email though so we’ll see. xo
Hope you’re well. As promised below are links about EMDR. As I said Friday night this may be helpful if you’re still experiencing anxiety to the point you’re having physical reactions to past interactions during your marriage. It’s really a fast track option to dealing with fears and trauma, but also fascinating how the brain through rapid eye movement can ‘process and reprocess’ – It’s been researched and accepted by the American Psychiatric Association. If you decide to explore further I included Dan’s site as he would be a good source to ask for referrals.
I know meeting wasn’t easy so I appreciate how much you shared. I also know divorce isn’t easy so I empathize with what you’re going through. After having time to process I still feeling overloaded and overwhelmed. In retrospect not sure thinking I was okay with listening was the best choice for me. I don’t regret it, but sticking with politics and kid stuff may be best.
I wish I would have said something at the time, but whatever you believe about Vince know he cares for you and the kids. He would never “punish” you by cutting out extra support. I was surprised when you said this and am sorry you feel this. I mentioned having suggested Vince see someone as a way to help him through this time. I then asked if you think it would help if the two of you saw someone, but in reality that’s something the two of you need to work out and not my place to facilitate. Just want to be clear on that. With that said, as long as you’re angry seeing a therapist to help with co parenting issues will be useless as it will only revamp the past. I did hear though how much his lack of communication, even about what upset him in your relationship hurt you. So if it’s important, asking in a non-combative, non-accusatory way may help with closure, but only if you’re able to hear and accept whatever he’s saying. Validation and empathy are key to any relationship, right? On the other hand, leaving any part of how you feel up to him or anyone else isn’t ideal especially if you’ve been disappointed. I don’t know. I struggle too…However you decide to move forward I sincerely hope the two of you find peace with the past, and that someday soon you can put this in the room we talked about. It’s simply not worth it and you have too much going for you to not enjoy your life right now.
Thanks for the information and note. This past weekend with the many milestones (meeting you,etc) brought some good closure for me. I appreciate your kind words and thoughts. I hope things for you continue to improve and move forward. Enjoy this beautiful weather!
Sent from my iPhone
Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:03 PM
Hope you had a nice Sunday and enjoyed the rest of your weekend. I want to clarify a few things about our exchange the other night.
In retrospect I wish I waited for a better time to start such a dialogue so I apologize for my bad timing. The first time I emailed you I did so without talking to Vince – I made the choice to text Saturday night without talking to or asking Vince because I didn’t feel it was necessary considering how much we shared when we met. I was left with the impression that while we weren’t going to be best friends, meeting provided some closure. I honestly thought we were in a comfortable place and felt, because of what we shared during our meeting, I could reach out to you – That was where I was coming from.
My main reason for getting in touch was to start a dialogue about ***** and ***** Skyping when he’s with you. They’ve become friends and ask about the next time they see each other. I suggested Skype since next time was going to be a while, and that’s when *****said what he said. So my primary reason for reaching out was to talk about the kids skpying. I included what ***** said so you had all the information. It wasn’t meant as a personal attack. I wasn’t accusing you of anything. I wasn’t asking you to explain why he was saying it, and I certainly wasn’t suggesting a fix. I was simply sharing a piece of information. My mistake was to assume your reaction. I didn’t think it was a big deal and that you would just file it. And, maybe the next time it came up casually reassure him you’re fine. That was the scenario running through my head based on the impression I had after we met.
Vince & I don’t take blending our families lightly. We dated more than a year before deciding it was time – Christine, I care about the boys and want the best for them so please rest assure I always tell Vince if something is said that I think he should know about. I don’t take on the responsibility of resolving or addressing issues because they’re not my kids, and because I think about what I want in the situation. I made the choice to discuss this subject directly, without Vince, because I didn’t think we needed a middle man. So, technically Vince wasn’t aware of what had taken place earlier in the evening. That didn’t mean I wasn’t planning to tell him, but I hadn’t at the time of the text. I did though when they took a life of their own.
The last thing I want, for my own sanity more than anyone else’s, is to have drama. So, in order avoid a repeat of Saturday, please clarify how you want to proceed when there’s a situation that would, in my opinion, be easier worked out directly, such as kids wanting to Skype. Do you want to work out such things directly or do you want to communicate everything through Vince? Also, my offer to drive ***** home was to save 15 minutes since I knew you wanted to see him. I didn’t think it was such a big deal given how we left things. But frankly after our exchange and things that were said I am left with the impression I may have misjudged the situation and there are unresolved issues, and that makes me sad for everyone involved, especially the kids.
Yes, I’m looking forward to thanksgiving so thanks – It will be an adventure. Do you plan to drive when you go in December or are you flying? Have you read The Mastery Of Love? It’s a short read, and it’s on audio – I may have told you about it – My therapist recommended it and it’s offered a new way to view things in any sort of relationship. I also skimmed through When things fall apart. Anyway, I will continue to do what I can and hope we can be friendly and united not only for our sake but also for the kids sake because it’s best for them, and their healing. And I will hope that if not next year than the following year, all of us (Dave, you, me, Vince, your significant other, Dave’s significant other, and our extended families) can stand around the thanksgiving table, together, comfortable and happy…Life is simply too short to waste on the should’s and shouldn’t of the unwritten rule book we each have that was formulated from our own very unique dysfunctions, passed on to us by our fucked up parents, courtesy of the generations before them by more fucked upness (not sure that’s a word). Anyway…take care.
I wrote the following note after I overheard a conversation between her and Vince telling him I needed to be handled, and that she didn’t want me in the car to pick up the kids with him. In 2015 he finally let me go with him when he had to pick them up. When she saw us coming she ran into the house crying. All this while she’s dating, and in front of the kids. Drama, attention and control.
Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:19 PM
No need to get back to me re earlier email. There really isn’t a reason for us to get in touch, is there. I told my daughter she would see ****** when he’s with Vince because you still have hurt feelings. It’s what she heard ***** say. And it’s what I am starting to believe after our exchange, but also the way you referred to me. It’s saying one thing and doing another. Frankly, I think you want Vince back. Your actions don’t match what you say…you said you want to cut down how much you talk to him yet your actions say something entirely different. You say you love it when he’s away and you have the kids all to yourself and you don’t have to talk to him yet your actions say the opposite. When we met you went out of your way to bad mouth him, put him down, embarrass him with the reference to his hand always being in a cereal box, not once but 3 times, confiding in me he kept ***** getting ****** to himself, making fun of his parents and dropping all sorts of other bombs on me and asking me to keep it all to myself. I thought you were sharing but now I wonder what the purpose of all that was. And why did you only mention ***** needing comfort. Why did you hold back *****’s part. I have wondered about that since I left that night….Then you refer to me as if I’m somehow beneath you…needing to be handled. I don’t know. I feel a little had. Not because you told Vince as he already knew but because I had no idea you saw me in the light that you do – So for now let’s stick to your plan and go through Vince for everything. There hasn’t been anything so far. And I don’t anticipate anything in the future. Nothing’s changed for me as far as my continuous hope that someday all will be harmonious. And, I know I will continue to treat you as I would want to be treated.
No hard feelings and I sincerely hope you figure things out.
I have no idea why I’m apologizing. Probably because Vince made me feel horrible about upsetting her when in reality I did no such thing. She had it in me from the beginning because she needed to be in control and didn’t want to lose control of Vince. For a woman who needed separation from Vince, she did everything but to create seperation. She made plans with his family to spend holidays with versus creating new traditions, and was on Vince when he and I chose to do things differently to which he would always agree to. It wasn’t that I cared she spent holidays with his family, I cared that she had made it clear that they had to choose between her and I. She told Vince she wasn’t going to allow her parents to stay at her home because she didn’t want them to stay there and then go out with him and I. The stories are long but this is how it started. I really hope they end up together because they deserve one another.
Date: Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 9:21 PM
Subject: I mentioned I was going to share and so I am…
To: Christine >
I mentioned on the phone that I would let you know when I felt I was unhappy with something or concerned and so I am taking a few moments to share some things that have bothered me recently and in the not so distant past.
I mentioned on the phone he other day a concern I have about the boys being exposed to situations where they see you being upset about my relationship with Vesta. While I am not asking you to be happy about the situation, it is important for us each to be accepting of and acting comfortable with the normal everyday interactions that we are bound to have in the future, like picking up and dropping off the kids. When we stopped by to pick up %^%^ the other day it was apparent that you did not want to see us and immediately went in the house and shut the door. I noticed and %$%$ may have. It would have been better, in my opinion, to have been able to just acknowledge me and Vesta and say hi. The kids would not feel the tension and consequently would not feel unnecessary guilt about being with us. I don’t believe you are saying things overtly to them that would make them believe you are unhappy with us or me but actions can be a powerful cue for them also.
Second, when you met with Vesta last September you shared a number of things about me that were not particularly flattering. I know this because Vesta shared the content of the conversation with me as well as the emails that followed. It’s important you know we share most everything with each other as you have no doubt discovered. You have mentioned “unhinged” several times and that she scares you most recently. I want you to know that I love Vesta, care deeply about her and would not have introduced the kids had I not. She also cares greatly about %%%%%% and has tried to establish a healthy relationship with you because she knows if we are to be in each others lives it’s going to be better if we can interact as amicably as possible. She prompted the kids to make the mother’s day videos for you and nudged them to call your mom. You have nothing to be scared about and I am not okay with her being characterized as unhinged. I have let things like not having Vesta with me when I pick the kids up from your house and not mentioning her when I communicate about plans I have get in the way of being open and honest and natural with you and the kids. I will not do that in the future. If Vesta is with me when it’s time to pick up the boys, she will be with me. It’s quite likely in the future that she will pick them up or drop them off on occasion as well. I’m not looking for friendships but we need to be respectful and , cooperative if this is to work well in the future and for the kids to remain open and comfortable with everything.
Third, you have mentioned several times that ^^^^ could not go to SACC because there is a wait list but is it possible that he has still not made it through the wait list? Was he not signed up for the wait list? ^^^^ went for quite a while last year without supervision after school and I have heard him mention several times that he would like to go to SACC after school. Given %%% will likely start getting involved in more after school activities as he gets older, SACC seems like a better option than a sitter, especially since it’s been difficult to keep one throughout the year. Do you have someone set up already for after school care for him?
Finally, on more than one occasion you have said things that indicate that your house is their home as if mine is not. Granted, they have more things at your house, their own rooms and a yard. But it’s wrong to think that because of those things somehow my apartment is not their home as well. You have claimed sacrifices to move into the neighborhood you did for the kids but I have made sacrifices as well, limiting my expenses responsibly in order to ensure that we are able to pay for $$$$s school, contributing what I do to the kids childcare and extracurricular activities and agreeing to the amount of available cash that has gone into your house at the expense of me having the available cash to do the same. We both operate in the interest of the kids and I am not alright with insinuations that because I was not the one that moved to ^^^^^^ that I somehow have less regard for them or have not made the necessary sacrifices. The conversation about ^^^^^ high school options is something we will have regardless of our decision/ability for him to go to a public school for 8th grade. “Good enough” isn’t really a great argument for sending %%%% someplace and with the budget cuts that ^^^^ has been going through lately I am not all that confident that &&&&&& will have the resources they need. Yorktown, in comparison, is ranked #8 in Virginia and in the top 220 in the nation and has a generally more affluent student body which, as you know, also tends to afford it additional resources for the students.
This is all intended to be the start of more forthright communications with you on things that I feel matter and I hope it is taken as such.
On Sep 18, 2016, at 9:30 PM, Vincent wrote:
Text was this: I was the cause of many of the issues that have come up because I accommodated your requests to keep Vesta out of simple things like baseball games and picking the kids up. I should not have accommodated requests that were not healthy and I think making an issue of a cordial request about a dish %%%% wanted to eat was making it about you instead of simply responding. I won’t accommodate things that don’t promote health adult communications and actions.
Begin forwarded message:
Date: September 18, 2016 at 11:15:47 PM EDT
Subject:Re: The text I sent at 6:45 was from me
This is a strange view of things given all that vesta has said about me and **** over the past few years and her irrational accusations and behavior yet again today. That is what has created this issue and my refusal to deal with her, which is well within my rights. Same for not allowing her to pick up kids when you are not there.
Sent from my iPhone
She’s referring to my asking for a chicken recipe when she says her “irrational accusations and behavior yet again today. My irrational suggestion while I offered to clear the way was I expressed her actions were indicative of a woman who was still in love with her ex husband since she did so much to always be the center of attention. My behavior..well, I guess asking for a recipe was too much for her to handle. She must always be the victim.