These two friends of his sent the emails they did when I reached out for help and to try and tell the truth, but as the author of From Charm to Harm advised ” dealing with a Narcissist in the ‘here and now’ is that there is NO possible way that you can make them understand or accept responsibility concerning their dehumanization of people – especially when it concerns you – it will only enrage them more and they will lash out at you more – it is a NO WIN SITUATION with a Narcissist! The Narcissist will distort everything using familiarity (from knowing our innermost secrets) with vicious lies about you to protect themselves from exposure and instill fear into us…They will stop at nothing to prove that you are the source of the collapse of this relationship, a liar, loser, abusive, the person having affairs, etc., and basically the person who deserves all the blame. Along the same lines trying to explain your side of the story to people will make you seem crazy because our stories are incredulous! You will only feel invalidated and frustrated trying to tell the truth over and over again and hearing those dismissing comments to just move on because time heals all!” This exchange also shows the writer to be right in that in trying to defend myself, I came out looking like the crazy one. It’s really really scary.
Keep in mind I had just been assaulted. I had a concussion, and was in shock and barely functioning. What’s surprising or should I say it shows how good he is at fooling people, Sarah is a speech therapist who helps people like me gain back their cognitive ability after domestic abuse yet her response was her standing over me and pouring salt on my open wounds. I responded in kind because at a certain point we can only be shit on so much.
Additionally, I had two email communication with Sarah in 2014, and met her only twice. She didn’t know anything about me or my life – I can only imagine the things she was telling me was crap Vince told her. What it sounded like was the feces his ex would say about me. I’ll post that interaction soon since there’s redactions to be done. Vince never had my back. He talked shit behind my back to everyone, like telling Jeff he was trying to break up with me but then telling me he wants to hold me. Oh my god…it’s overwhelming to think about.
Shame on you!
Vince’s January 1, 2017 email
Good morning and happy new year beautiful girl. I decided to start the year off by doing something healthy and physical this morning and so I will be out of the apartment the rest of the morning and probably most of this afternoon. If you want to pick up/drop off stuff you can be certain I wont be there until 3pm at the earliest.
I have not read the emails or texts from last night and will do so when I am done with my ride.
2017 is going to be better for us. We needed something to shake us each out of patterns we followed this past year that were not healthy, both personally and as a couple. While the events of the past couple weeks have been horrible and I regret my part terribly and hope you can forgive me in some way in the future, they are a turning point we can use to our advantage to not fall into past patterns. I am not a monster or a danger but that’s obviously something you need to judge for yourself.
My hope for 2017 is that we are both healthier, mentally and physically. That we recognize our own failings, actively work on them and give each other and others in our lives the space, time and benefit of the doubt, recognizing we either are acting out of love or fear. Let’s live our lives out of love. I will do my best to understand which is driving me and when I see I am functioning out of fear I will try to turn my actions towards love.
I promise I will read and respond to everything this afternoon. Let’s give 2017 a chance.
I met Jeff twice. The emotions he was referring to was my crying to him a day or two after I was assaulted, and also angry emails I sent but then I had just been attacked. Isn’t that pathetic – I was assaulted and I am being judged and persecuted for being angry.
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Jeff G <email@example.com> wrote:
I wanted to wait a few days before I responded,and to be honest – I’m not sure I wanted to. First off, I’m sorry and disappointed you chose to read a private chat between me and Vince. Despite what you think, Vince really does care about you, and I don’t believe he’s intentionally tried to, for a lack of a better work, gas-light you. Did Vince lie to you? I’m sure he did. Vince is a master-avoider. He’ll say and do things to get out of the situation – probably even lie and manipulate because he’s a smart guy. But the reason he does this is not to try to make you crazy, but to selfishly escape his immediate problems and push them down the road. The problem with this strategy is that he can’t keep pushing his problems down the road and they will eventually catch up with him, which they have.From my conversation with Vince and confirmed in your email messages, I can tell that you have a temper Vesta and are prone to extreme emotional responses. I’m not saying it’s right, but people with those traits are often lied to or given half-truth’s because so often the messenger is shot, and if that messenger is someone like Vince who tries to avoid conflict at all cost, then it really paints a clear picture for me. You two were not able to honestly and effectively communicate on anything of emotional substance in your relationship, nor will you two EVER be able to.That’s why my advice to Vince was, even though you still have these feelings for her, you need to let Vesta go. If you care about her, let her go. You (Vince) are not good for her. It’s a hard message to hear for him because despite all the chaos and embarrassment you’ve caused him, he probably.I have the same message for you Vesta, but I could tell it was also a message you didn’t want to hear. From my perspective, you were an incredibly chaotic and destructive force in Vince’s life. You both were to each other.Vesta, all guys are mainly idiots when it comes to women. We mostly think with our dicks. We all say stupid shit, especially when we’re scared and feel cornered. Sounds like Vince majored in that lately, but he did not want any of this to happen. He’s letting you go because it’s better for you.I know you’ve implied that there’s something more insidious and conspiratorial going on with Vince and his family. I just don’t see any evidence of that, and please don’t send me any more emails on that subject. The more you allow yourself to believe this line of thought, the more you are going to make yourself crazy. If I am wrong, and there is probably some very very small chance that I am, the best revenge is to lead a good life. What you have been doing with online shaming and embarrassment is a shallow pursuit and only validates a narrative where you are a crazy woman spurned.So lastly, a harsh message to both of you: Grow the fuck up and do what’s right for your kids. Whatever that may be, but I can guarantee it’s NOT staying together in any way. Be nice to each other and go on and lead a good life.
Jeff Gooder, CTO
On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Vesta <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:gaslighting over and over is not love. had you been sorry or shown an ounce of remorse things would not be such a mess. had you been honest with me, with your family and with your friends, things would not be the mess that you are.you treated me as though I was a rag doll that night. you gave me a concussion and you had your hand around my neck. look at the photos. what did you tell jeff about why? the truth or half truth? have you told him the total story about the kids or your version? or did you even mention the kids and just told him i was a nut bag because that’s the way i read his response telling you i was scary and that you better keep an eye out on me….really? people who are conflict avoidant are often abusers. you are a narcissist and your favorite method to stay in control was gas lighting. you destroyed my spirit and you shattered my heart but it can’t be all that bad because none of it was real. you are void. you are simply void. i look forward to the i wake up not thinking about the stupid choice i made not to walk out on you after i caught you in the first lie. i bet you there were no Palestinian anything you talked to about me because you lie. you lied when you told me you talked to David…remember that. you lied about all sorts of stupid things. you are simply a pathological liar and i am trying to deal with the shock of having stayed with you. by the way, you treated my body like you have treated my emotions from early on. I sincerely hope, for your sons sake, you get real help. Not BS pretend help. I hope you realize that you can’t treat people like you treated me. You lied to your friend telling him you are trying to break up with me but then are texting me telling me you want to hold me and love me. What the fuck is wrong with you? You made me out the crazy person when you are the dangerous one. What in god’s name were you doing. It’s right there in black and white. You are pathological and none of this will ever sink in. you are really scary…
On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:29 AM, sarah sh <email@example.com> wrote:
Vesta,I have not responded to your line of inquiry and questioning as it doesn’t dignify a response. I have blocked you from my FB account and do not want any future communication with you. You do not get to accuse me of not being a feminist and/or making assumptions about what I am or am not thinking.I am going to give you a little insight into my thoughts before I cease communication with you. I think both domestic abuse and mental health are extremely important issues. It has been clear for a long time to many people in Vince’s life that your mental health issues are significant and pose a serious road block to your ability to function in daily life and the ability for you to participate in a healthy, functional relationship. Not only with Vince, but with your family and friends. But Vince stayed with you, and brought his own unique set of issues to your relationship. You are not the victim here, you have victimized each other and have fostered a disfunctional relationship that is coming to an extremely ugly demise, as most disfunctional and toxic relationships do.It is absolutely inappropriate and unexceptable that Vince laid his hands on you. I think if you feel that the situation that occurred on the night in question was clearly assault, then you should absolutely pursue your charges. However, this manic and vengeful smear campaign of Vince is equally as reprehensible and criminal in my opinion. I hope that Vince will get his day in court as well to charge you with libel and slander. I know you wrote that ‘it’s not libel if it’s true’. You may be able to share that Vince assaulted you, but making the case that Vince is a monster who has been emotionally abusing you for years is not true.You’re right, I do know a bit about psychology. I know that Vince is not ‘gaslighting’ you. The two examples you keep harping on (Christmas, pictures) are ridiculous!!! This is not gaslighting, this is Vince clearly avoiding conflict and confrontation from you, because as you mentioned, you have ‘yelled and thrown things’. (I hope nothing has hit Vince, giving him cause to charge you with assault.) The fact that you admit to going through Vince’s emails like it’s no big deal continues to support how totally dysfunctional your relationship was. I have never gone through Tim’s email. You are committing libel by writing that Vince is a narcissist and emotionally abusive, Vince can not be a narcissist AND be conflict-avoidant, both of which you claim him to be. You have zero case for accusing him of committing abuse, when your relationship was clearly one that was mutually perpetuated and toxic. Your behavior, many instances noted, was not that of someone who was abused. It is clear that Vince was not ‘controlling’ you as you appeared to say and do whatever you wanted.For your information I have not talked to Vince, and from the conversations Tim has had, Vince has not tried to justify his behavior or make excuses like you say. Vince has not called you names, which I would have, or made any negative comments toward you at all. Vince told Tim, ‘I think it’s really over this time.’ Which leads me to believe that he clearly cared for you, however dysfunctional your relationship was. Which means that Vince is also a victim here.You are extremely quick to shout from the rooftops what a terrible person Vince is, yet you have not given any indication of the situation surrounding your assault, which leads me to believe that there may have been mutual involvement. I am a feminist, but I also believe that women should not play the ‘victim’ when they also are instigators. I hope for the sake of every woman who has faced unprovoked violence in her relationships and home that you are clear in your story and the details of your assault, because as a feminist I hold myself and other women to a high standard of behavior. One you are not meeting with your childish emails, posts and accusations. Fortunately, the court system is very good at weeding through these situations. I hope you have a good lawyer, but I suspect not, as every time you send an email or write a post you make your case weaker.You claim that you’re taking back your dignity with all your emails and posts, but there is absolutely nothing dignified about the way you are handling this situation.You want to talk ‘woman to woman’, here is my advice:
Show a gleam of maturity and put the four children you have drug into this situation first. Drop the charges, step away from the computer, focus on yourself and your relationship with your children.
I truly wish the best for you and your children Vesta. And hope you can work towards cultivating peace and contentment in your life.Sarah
On Saturday, January 14, 2017, Vesta Ghavamzadeh <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:Y.“This is not gaslighting, this is Vince clearly avoiding conflict and confrontation from you, because as you mentioned, you have ‘yelled and thrown things’. (I hope nothing has hit Vince, giving him cause to charge you with assault.) “Little Ms. Know it all,How do you know anything about my relationship with my friends or family. Beside what Vince has told you what do you really know about me. Of course you have to stick up for Vince. He’s your paycheck’s boss and as you said in Vegas does a lot for Time. Remember how upset you were at Tim choosing to go get drunk with Jeff and not show up at the IBM event he was suppose to. Vince certainly covered his ass, didn’t he, by not reprimanding him so I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself given you are factually wrong on everythings including knowing the law.You weren’t in the relationship and have no idea whether Vince was a monster or not so given what he put me through and unlike you who assumed the two examples were it, you have no business telling me what I lived through and what I did not, and what I experience was emotional abuse or not. And, to clarify, I ripped our pictures up. I ripped our photo albums up and because what we had was not real. So, no I never threw anything at him. Unlike him I don’t lose control to the point where I physically hurt people. He on the other hand…well the bruises speak for themselves and if you think any woman deserves what he did than you are a horrible mother to be teaching your daughter to behave or otherwise the man in her life gets to beat her up. You start out by saying I should press charges if I feel I was assaulted and then you tell me to drop it and think of the four kids when the four kids are not involved. Why would you assume I would bring kids into this? Would you bring kids into this? Reality is, you don’t really know me and you have to protect your income so I get it. Or maybe you and Vince have something on the side since you think you know him so well and what it’s like to be in a relationship with him. He did tell me Him and Tim were commenting on your see through yoga pants. Maybe the three of you have something going on or maybe he and Tim. Anything is possible given he’s as pathological as he is…Anyway, If you want me to drop the charges bullying me or trying to scare me didn’t. Vince already tried that and failed.