In recent days I have been going over emails, not to rehash, but to re assure myself of what really happened versus his spin he tried and shove down my throat – Self doubt is the result of having been subjected to years of gaslighting, manipulation and guilt trips without realizing or understanding what was happening to me. No matter what the situation, Vince always blamed me and put our relationship on the line.
For example after my exchange with his ex, his opinion of my choice to keep my kids away from his, considering either were willing to address the issues like adults, was to hint that the decision I had made was going to change us. The threats were subtle, but they were always there. His disappointment in my decision was laughable considering he was never keen on having all the kids together. His new found interest in my kids spending time with his was the result of his ex wife, who, as you can see, wasn’t able to bully me and was offended and concerned only for her 14 year old’s feelings and how my keeping my kids away was going to impact him. Not once did either say they were sorry for what their son had done. Not once..
Picture above give you an idea of the size difference between the two boys. And, the exchange offers yet another perfect example of how two unhealthy people manipulate, lie and turn things around. It also demonstrated to me that I took a lot but realize I couldn’t walk away because I was constantly trying to make sure I was sane. By this time we had been together for almost 3 years, and the constant emotional abuse and gaslighting had taken a toll. The exchange details how he and his ex responded to my reaching out, wanting to work on the issues together. The exchange is self explanatory in depicting how they handled their 14 year old son giving my then 6 year old a wedgie and throwing a tennis ball directly at his eye.
Christine is the ex – her responses are in blue.
Mine are either in black or black/italic/bold.
R1 is the oldest son and R2 is youngest
K is my son and N is my daughter
Give me feedback…I was calm but after multiple exchanges I grew frustrated and answered her back sharply. When I read this it is mind boggling how she turns things around and lies about what everyone said or what they feel – My heart breaks for the kids since the two have been trained to lie and walk on eggshells like everyone else in order for her to remain stable. No one is perfect, but this woman is a horrible human being and I hope she and he get back together so they can’t hurt anyone else….they deserve one another…
|| Dangerous Borderline
||Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 10:58 PM
I understand Vince shared with you details of the incident between R1 and K.This sounds very dramatic. Are you referring to the tennis ball that R1 threw at K. I heard about this situation from R2 and he was shocked that R1 got in trouble for it. He said that they were all playing and it got rough. He stated he thought it was a mistake and that R1 apologized right away. R2 was confused that this was a big deal.
The tennis ball was thrown from 5 feet away directly at a 45 pound 6 year old. R2 was arguing with him asking why he threw the ball so hard when he was so close. N was hugging K as he was crying. Vince can tell you the rest.
I think it’s important for me to stress my desire to work together as this is a long term situation and all of the children’s mental health is important to me. I hope you have no doubt in knowing I fully understand that they are your children and how you choose to address this or any other situation is yours and Vince’s. I believe it’s important to be on the same page and in understanding why I feel what I feel about the situation and why David and I have made the choices we have to protect K until there is a remedy or system in place that provides confidence in my feeling the situation is safe. Know that I care for R1 and am concerned for him, and my choice to protect my children isn’t because I don’t dislike R1 or think he is a bad child.
K is a loving little boy who loves R1. He is a happy little guy who wants to play with him, hold his hands and be affectionate. His father and I have always been affectionate with our kids so that’s what they know, but that doesn’t mean he’s that way with everyone. He sees Vince, R1 & R2 as family and feels close to them. So, I’ve had to work with him in explaining that everyone is different and that he needs to respect R1 and give him space. And, over time he’s learned to do that. He needs reminders once in a while but for the most part he’s backed off from wanting to hold his hand or hugging him.
Both the boys have complained to me the K is aggressive and will not leave them alone. They have stated that neither you nor Vince deal with the situation effectively and often just ignore it. They have mentioned that he spits in faces and is very very aggressive with his sister. They do not like to be in long car rides with him or other situations where they have to deal with his behavior. I have only responded that he is young, they need to be patient and that they should request that the adults assist when this happens.
K is aggressive in wanting attention and wanting R1 to play with him, but he doesn’t hurt them. He doesn’t tell them to “go away” he doesn’t treat them like they are nothing, and either you are lying or your boys are lying to you to make you feel better in that I am on it. I have told R1 he needs to come to me if K doesn’t listen to him wanting space. I tell K and have worked with him to be respectful of other people’s space. That’s why he no longer comes in and hugs him. As far as spitting…I believe there was one incident recently that he spit on his sister’s shoe or licked her face, but I will take that over having him punch and pinch and terrorize. I will take that over him telling her to shut up or constantly have put him down and treat him as like dirt. And everything is handled on the spot mainly because I want to teach my child he needs to be respectful of others but I also want him to learn it is important to walk away from those who mistreat you. And if someone purposefully ignores you or pushes you away then he needs to learn to respect himself enough to not try so hard.
As far as long car rides go…yes, R1 gets annoyed with K because I have chosen to raise my kids without electronics so they are use to interacting that include games, talking, listening to books which R1 makes fun of, or just staring out the window. R1 has gotten upset with me for telling him I didn’t want him showing my kids various youtubes videos or expose them to games I find inappropriate. R1 also gets mad at me when I tell him to talk in a respectful manner to his brother and that me and his dad are the adults in the car and he doesn’t need to tell R1 or my kids to be quiet when they are laughing or talking. Vince and I address these issues as they come up.
That said, their relationship took a hit when R1 gave K a wedgie last spring. Following that incident K no longer wanted to come to Vince’s place or see R1, which I respected and did not push. Did Vince deal with this at the time? Any consequences for R1? I did not hear anything about it. R1 should have had consequences for this.
David & I decided to take him to his therapist to make sure he was okay and to seek her advice on how to handle the situation appropriately. This is not connecting. You took your son to a therapist because of the wedgie? I don’t understand.
She suggested it was important R1 apologize to K in front of me and Vince and make it was clear to R1 that K would let us know if he acted in an inappropriate manner. Did this happen? Did it settle the issue?
As far as my taking my son to a therapist over a “wedgie” you’re damn right I did! Someone who he cares about and loves hurt him, and that made him feel bad enough that he didn’t want to see him. Kids internalize bad things that happen to them so I didn’t want K to think he had done anything wrong, and I wanted to find out how to address R1 . He isn’t mine and I don’t pretend to know everything so I sought help. So go ahead and try to make K to be the source of it, but even if that was true R1 should know better.
Know that I love R1 and R2 like they are my own, and I don’t say any of this lightly. I have watched R1 get increasingly aggressive with R2 without any consequence. Vince may not discipline the children when issues arise but I certainly do. R2 has complained to me that his father does not deal with issues when they arise, historically this has been the pattern. Vince has not said anything to me about this behavior increasing and R1 and R2 have been getting along well when with me. Because I am not his parent I am not able to discipline so in those situations all I do is tell him to stop, be kind and encourage R2 to speak up and share with you and his dad. I have seen Lee argue with Vince begging him not to leave R2 alone with R1 after school as R2 fears him and doesn’t feel safe with him. I have never heard this before and have asked Vince to confirm that this conversation actually happened. Normally Lee would speak to me directly if she had such a concern as we have a very good relationship. Vince does not recollect his mother “begging” on this issue or any conversation that resembles what you have portrayed here. Please ask him. This is an exaggeration.
Last Thanksgiving in the kitchen Lee said she had talked to you and you had told her you were paying R1 to babysit after school. She began crying saying that was not a good idea because R2 doesn’t feel safe with him. Vince responded by exaggerating the truth saying you have a sitter and that R1 is fine.When in reality you didn’t have a sitter because he complained about it, and because it was fact. You didn’t have a sitter. You had your dad’s nurse once or twice a week but then she left and kids were alone after school. I confronted him on this later saying it wasn’t okay to lie to his mom to make her feel bad when she is clearly concerned. I believe he asked for you to add R2 to **** in early January, but you said you didn’t have any money. Don’t take my word for it. Search your mail. Of course Vince doesn’t view it as begging because he would then have to take ownership of not being truthful with her. I viewed it as begging because she was crying and trying to talk to him, but he shut her down. I felt bad for her. But it was not my place to say anything so I stayed quiet until I was alone with Vince. You should also know N stands up for R2. When R1 takes his stuff away and makes him cry N goes up to R1 and takes back whatever….It’s sad for me to watch, but he’s not my child.
I am being honest when I tell you I can’t read through this entire email for several reasons. One because of the ADHD and because when I get to it I’m not on medication to help me focus. 2) I don’t like your attacks and for the life of me don’t understand why this has to be so fucking difficult. We are grown women. I am trying to work with you. I reached out to you as a mother not as your husband’s GF. Come on Christine…lets just deal with this, find neutral ground and move on. I can read through more later but I honestly wonder what good it is doing. It would be much more beneficial if we can deal with this in a different way.
Last spring R2 even reached out to me while in your home after school through Skype because he was R1 wasn’t leaving him alone. He was upset (I will email you the exchange) What he actually wrote was “R2 keeps on making fun of me and being mean to me.” I am not saying that R1 needs to be kept in check with regards to his brother, but there is also a dynamic with R2 where he exaggerates the severity and frequency of negative things. He does this not only with R1 but also with classmates. R2 has every right to be treated kindly and with respect by R1 but there are dynamics here that you do not understand and your approach to the situation feeds into the dysfunction. –
I called Vince so he handled it. All of that coupled with what you shared about locking yourself in the bathroom to protect yourself,
I am shocked that you would use this against my son. He was 3 or 4 years old and having a tantrum. his diagnosis of ODD,again, when he was 3 years old his lack in judgment to either participate in *******************or being present ****** I will never forgive Vince for telling you whatever it is he told you.
(I met this woman once and in the first 5 minutes of our conversation she used a tragic event she is blaming her ex for having told me when it was she who opened her mouth, but she didn’t do it to share…she did it more as a “did he tell you how horrible he is” hoping to cause problems.
This was a very painful and complicated situation that you do not deserve to know about. I also do not trust that Vince would even accurately explain the situation to you. And if we want to talk about lack of judgement, you should start with Vince rather than a 9 year old boy. But, regardless, you should know nothing about this because you misuse information to manipulate things and inject drama into everything. I have seen this over and over in all of your unsolicited communications with me and it is destructive and makes you untrustworthy in the most fundamental way. Your persistent misrepresentation of information, lack of respect for other people’s boundaries and need for high drama are the reasons I refuse to have any relationship with you. I don’t care that you and Vince are in love and have a very serious relationship. I don’t know how many times I have to say this. What I do take issue with is your off-the-wall emails accusing me of wanting him back and assorted other things. It is outrageous that you would say that after what was the most difficult and painful decision of my life – especially as a mother who would do anything to protect her children from something like a broken family. Your destructive and dramatic behavior is now extending to my children and that is unacceptable.You have no right to discuss this issue with R2 and I can see your approach will drive a wedge between R1 and R2 and create a victim identity for R2. You have gone beyond your place with regards to speaking with R2 about this and it needs to stop. and aggression in how he tries to control the situation by intimidation and bullying leave me no choice but to sever his contact with K. Therefore, I will not be including K in activities where R1 will be present. Do I understand correctly that because R1 threw a tennis ball at K too hard and gave him a wedgie 6 months ago you are taking this action.The reaction does not seems to match the situation. What am I missing? Saying this breaks my heart but I have to protect my children and I am concerned for the lack of judgment he continues to exhibit. I am also incredibly disturbed by him being online last night.
I ask that you please put your differences with me aside and whether Vince and I work out see me as someone who cares about your kids, and see the relationship I’ve forged with R2 as a positive, and not be upset with him or make him feel bad for sharing what he has.
This is a great example of what you do. You are implying I would be upset with R2 or “make him feel bad for sharing” by saying this. This is simply outrageous, typical of what you do and a key reason why I do not trust you at all. You clearly need this kind of drama to function, and I have not responded in the past because it was unworthy of my time and energy. But again, you have brought this too close to my kids for me to ignore it anymore and let it go unchecked.
I am glad he knows he can trust me and is able to share. I also hope for their sake we can work together. I made an appointment to see Nicole (kids therapist) next Tuesday. You and Vince are more than welcome to join me.
Please know that it is truly your approach and behavior, not that fact that you are with Vince, that has made me unwilling to deal with you. (I may respond finally to your multiple emails accusing me of random things to illustrate this point.) At the end of our marriage I could hardly stand to be in a room with him so I certainly did not have any remaining romantic feelings for him. I have no desire to hurt Vince and hope he is happy. It is best for the kids to have a happy and healthy father. I will likely suffer the consequences of being direct about how I view your behavior with Vince, but there you have it.
“Driven To Distraction” is a great book in helping parents, significant others, children and anyone else who have someone with ADHD in their lives. I hope you read it because I know it will provide insight that you may find helpful.Do you have any idea how many books I have read about ADHD? You presume I have not done my research having a child with ADHD and having navigated his educational career thus far?
I don’t know how many books you’ve read, and I never said you hadn’t read enough. I simply made a suggestion to read one I think is pretty good. Please don’t read into what I haven’t said or assume and accuse me of what you think I said.
In the few conversations I’ve had with R1 about ADHD he’s described his struggle with reading, a struggle I am familiar with. To this day I struggle with reading. My struggle is exactly the same as R1 –actually its not. do you also have orthographic dyslexia? R1 does. Do you struggle with recall of familiar words and fluency but have very high scores on decoding as a result of your orthographic dyslexia? I am risking a great deal telling you this as I anticipate the next email I receive from you will tell me how much you know about this and what I should be doing about it. As I mentioned in my other email, you have zero respect for boundaries and are consistently condescending.
Staring at a book seeing the words, reading it, but having them not make sense or be able to say what I just read in a comprehensive manner. I know growing up I could have benefited from a more rigid schedule, a lot more boundaries, regular exercise and much much more that I’ve had to learn on my own as an adult. ****@gmail.com is the email for Dr.******. She is not my therapist, but I consulted her about strategy in what I need to do on a daily basis to relieve the chaos that gets created from the lack of organization. She literally gave me step by step instructions on what to do, which is what we need. I have not seen in a while, and while she may not be the right choice for you I would recommend seeing her to see what you and Vince can do in the home to help him. Since her specialty is ADHD she describes the function of the brain and how it works differently than those without ADHD – I know Vince would appreciate that. She could also be a great resource in finding R1 a reading coach who is an ADHD specialist to show him how to read to help him gain confidence. She can also recommend others like her who see kids/teenagers. Like I said, she would be a great source for the two of you. Why do you even set up the pretense that you respect our role as R1 and R2’s parents. This is incredibly intrusive, condescending and unwelcome. I understand that you have ADHD but you are very presumptuous to think you know more about R1 and his ADHD than I do. Some of us have ODD which makes the path more complicated, but it’s not hopeless the drama you bring to everything is really unproductive and I am not sure what it provides to you but it is very unhelpful. Did you know R*** tested at grade level in reading just last week? Not exactly hopeless. and given you know of his challenges early on and have the financial resources you are ahead of the game.
I never said R1 could not read at grade level, or that he was hopeless. I don’t do pretense well and was clear when I said I struggled with writing the email that I did and only did it because i, too, have it and because I live on some cloud thinking we can be amicable. I never said I knew more about R1 and his ADHD than you. I simply said I know how it feels to read a book and not have it sink in. I said ODD complicates matters but that it’s not hopeless.
So, I’m not really sure what you are trying to accomplish here. Like I said earlier I am going to see Nicole on Tuesday to talk to her about the situation because R*** threw that ball intentionally hard. Period. R2 was yelling at him and R1 was trying to change the story like you are doing here. R2 took this opportunity to tell Vince he was afraid of R1 because he punched and pinched him and he was upset because no one did anything about it. You want to make me and my kids to be the problem…go ahead. But you aren’t doing your kids any favors by placing them in a situation where they feel they need to lie to make you happy. Furthermore, your decision to ignore Vince and his request not to give R1 the phone when you left here is a perfect example of how little you think of him. Kids learn by example and R1 thinks lying is okay because everyone does it. He posted a picture Vince took saying he took it. That’s not okay.
Finally, and I’m not trying to be rude, but I have ADHD and you write really long letters so I can’t deal with all of them tonight. And really don’t even see the point in reading the rest because you’ve done nothing but attack me, my kids, and tried to make yourself out to be the victim when this has nothing to do with you. I came to you a year ago wanting a harmonious relationship yet you have continued to make your demands from Vince to keep me invisible. I sent you a happy new year wish and you turned around and forwarded it to Vince with a put down. You want to talk about boundaries….lets start with that.
I am happy to talk when you are done being angry and sincerely want to work together.
After the exchange she emailed Vince asking if I was keeping my kids away from R1. Below was my response directly to her.
Let me answer the question you posed to Vince. Given these emails and your lack in taking ownership of anything that R1 has done I am even more concerned and do continue to believe R1 is a “threat” because he lacks in making sound judgment and therefore will continue to keep my kids away until I sense a change. So no amount of bullying, name calling, manipulation you do will change my mind. I plan to go see Nicole Tuesday and I will tell her about R1 and his entire history. And I will seek her advice in how to move forward. I am not sure if she*******, but I am done trying to work with you until you stop making this about yourself. And you are right Christine when you say I am unhinged. I must be since I’ve continued to put up with someone like you. And know******** YOU or Vince would not be the ones I would be contacting. I’d go to****** so STOP being so dramatic, get over what you want the situation to be and address the situation like an adult.
I’m sincerely curious to know what you think. Am I missing something. This is the first time I am writing as I relive this and think to myself…my god…these people were nuts! what was I thinking spending as much time as I did trying to create something they aren’t capable of…feels good…